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Author Topic: Naming the breeder:  (Read 2079 times)

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Online DewaldC

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Naming the breeder:
« on: January 25, 2016, 20:49:50 »
Hi clivia friends

When sharing results of a cross not made by yourself. ;D

Should you also share the name of the breeder?

What if it ended up orange?

What if it ends up being something special ?

What will be the result of you sharing the name of the breeder?

Kind regards,
Dewald


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Offline Quinten Snyman

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016, 07:01:35 »
When sharing results of a cross not made by yourself. ;D

Should you also share the name of the breeder?

What if it ended up orange?

What if it ends up being something special ?

What will be the result of you sharing the name of the breeder?

IMHO

All members have the right you either share or withhold information as is the definition of the word :

share1
???/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: sharing
have a portion of (something) with another or others.
"he shared the pie with her"
synonyms:   split, divide, go halves in/with; More
give a portion of (something) to another or others.
"they shared out the peanuts"
synonyms:   apportion, portion out, divide up, allocate, ration out, give out, distribute, dispense, hand out, dish out, deal out, dole out, parcel out, measure out; More
use, occupy, or enjoy (something) jointly with another or others.
"they once shared a flat in Chelsea"

- Compliments of Google

Further and I think this has been discussed on the forum in the past, should you have a problem with a breeder the honorable thing to do would be to contact him/her privately to resolve the matter rather than publicly shaming said breeder.

Some breeders do not actively advertise their successes for a reason, and others just wish not to be bothered.

I think your answers will all begin and end with the breeders themselves.

Just my thoughts.
Best Regards

Quinten Snyman
071 886 3957

Polokwane, Limpopo, RSA
www.dragonflyclivia.co.za

Online DewaldC

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 08:57:22 »
Here's my answers to my own questions. :D

Should you also share the name of the breeder?
No

What if it ended up orange?
No,what would be the point.

What if it ends up being something special ?
No,one's someone sells there seeds, they also relinquishes all there rights.


What will be the result of you sharing the name of the breeder?
N/A

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Offline Peter Miles

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2016, 18:04:04 »
I would always share the name of the breeder if it was a special plant. The breeder, I think, deserves the acknowledgement. The fact that the plant is mine, would be enough for me, and I don't believe the owner deserves the credit for its breeding.
Peter Miles
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Offline Carrie Kruger

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2016, 09:47:56 »
I would always share the name of the breeder if it was a special plant. The breeder, I think, deserves the acknowledgement. The fact that the plant is mine, would be enough for me, and I don't believe the owner deserves the credit for its breeding.

I agree with you Peter. Well said.

kind regards
Carrie
Carrie Kruger             Don`t dream your life, live your dreams!
Utopia Nursery
Sedgefield
South Africa
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Offline Mike Rummerfield

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2016, 10:15:29 »
Thank you Peter and Carrie.
I agree.

Regards,
Mike
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Online Lionel Bester

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2016, 14:27:08 »
I agree with you 100% Peter , we would , mostly  :smile: .
However ... let me add this .
By " Breeding " we mean someone choosing parents for a cross and then taking 5 minutes to pollinate the plant and getting a seed set of between 30 and +100 seeds.
I am sure all who do pollinations know just how easy this is .
It is " Cute " that we call ourselves " Breeders " but let`s not fool ourselves that what we do takes " Special Skill "  .
We humans are far too quick to place ourselves and others on a pedestal , true greatness is Extremely rare .
No big deal if one already knows with a little certainty the outcome of the cross ... Say Hirao x Charles green or x Hirao green .
Well most crosses today are like this .... Bronze x Bronze , Grp 1 Yellow x Grp 1 Yellow or Grp 1 Pastels , picotee x picotee , Red x Red Versicolor x Versicolor , Multi Petal x Multi Petal etc , etc , etc.
If one is experimenting with a cross time will tell , the outcome of a cross is natures work not ours .
It is also fine if we want to " own " the outcome .... " My Breeding ".
We cannot influence the outcome AT ALL , as breeder we choose and pollinate " finish and klaar " .
This is why I think it unkind to berate a breeder if we get less than what we expected from a seed cross .

It would be good to  ensure that the beginner ... doing his first pollinations , is comfortable with the fact that in next to no time He /She can also produce Quality plants ... either by purchasing good plants from others and breeding with them , or by purchasing seed from others .
We " Breeders " are nothing special , the more pollinations you do the better the return ....... simple .

 " Vico Yellow " ....we associate it`s " breeding " with Sir Smithers , but he tells us it was found under the staging ( cast aside probably " at Kew Gardens if my memory serves me .

Personally , when some special flower comes out of our own pollinations , I am as surprised and as pleased as anyone .
When others say " Well Done " I accept the compliment but know and let them know , how small my contribution has been .

So Dewald and Quinten , I respect your view ..... my 5 minutes work , compared to your 5 years of TLC to get the plant to flower makes your efforts far  more special in my book .
Yes I would love to share in your joy if you send me a Pic , but will be none the wiser should you not .
I would not be offended if others do not recognize me as " Breeder " , to be a " Breeder "  is a small thing IMHO .
We are in it foremost for the flowers , not the recognition .... that comes in its own time , uninvited .
Regards,
             Lionel.

Offline Heidi (shu_bunkin)

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2016, 17:47:10 »
Well said as usual Lionel   :) 
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Offline Mike Rummerfield

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 07:21:24 »
Lionel,
The 5 minutes you take in breeding a plant may not require a special skill, but it is backed by years of experience, accumulated knowledge, judgement, choices, perceptions, observations, collecting and building a stud stock, raising, discarding, joy, disappointment; even intuition.

Yes, anyone can use the 'little dab'll doya' approach, but unless you have a collection, even small, of superior stock (think Conway), you are much less likely to come up with good plants, even out of thousands of crosses, if you are using inferior or mediocre stock, or lack even a minimum of knowledge of Clivia breeding basics .  Yes it is a process, albeit a slow one, that one can learn, but as with any venture, some are better learners than others.  You, and many other breeders, are the learned, and we all benefit from that knowledge.  Please give yourself a little more credit.  Your contribution is more than "small".

Any of us can take a seedling of exceptional parentage and destroy it.  I agree, it takes time and care to raise a plant to health and flowering; and the owner should be given due credit and accolades for doing so, and sharing in their pleasure and pride in their achievement. 

It may not be an apt analogy, but I wouldn't think of owning a work of art created by someone else and claim it as my own creation.  Good custodian, hopefully yes.  Creator, no.

And, of course, Nature has the final say in any outcome.
Viva, "the flowers".

Just my 2 or 3 cents worth (or perhaps, no sense).

With respect,
Mike
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Offline Cobus Roos

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2016, 09:39:07 »
My two cents worth .... by sharing the name of the breeder and info on pod/pollen parents you also give others to obtain similar plants. Keeping info to oneself gives you no satisfaction .... this I learned from my clivia dad, oom Ammie Grobler. He never withheld any info, and shared freely.

I do agree with Dewald that once seeds/plants are sold the breeder relinguishes rights to those seeds/plants, but that does not mean that we should not give the breeder acknowledgement.

I have bought many seeds and seedlings, wellknowing that they cannot be guaranteed. If they flower ordinary orange so be it. I gambled and lost, but I also have a chance to end up with something stunning. Unfortunately my recordkeeping of my earlier plants were not so good, but I have corrected that, and will in future know where what came from.

What is true is that when I cross two plants which came from someone else, I become the breeder of the seeds and plants coming from it. Having said all of this, I don't mind if I'm not given credit. I suppose it is the prerogative of the owner to give credit or not
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Online Lionel Bester

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2016, 10:09:05 »
Hello Mike ,
                Thanks for joining in .
 I agree with you , experience cannot be bought  but everyone can gain experience .

" Creating " is another story .

Quote :    " It may not be an apt analogy, but I wouldn't think of owning a work of art created by someone else and claim it as my own creation.  Good custodian, hopefully yes.  Creator, no. "

We know the limits of analogy .... to me , what we call " Breeder " is like the assistant to the Artist .

The Assistant prepares the artists/Creators studio .
Sets up the right conditions for the Creator of the painting ... cleaning the studio ,
laying out the brushes , paint , easel .. very important work but he remains assistant.

That`s all ,
               Lionel.
 

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Offline Cobus Roos

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2016, 11:46:12 »
Well said Lionel
Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist

Offline Brinette Fourie

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Re: Naming the breeder:
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2016, 12:23:11 »
 Hi to all,

Thank you the valuable discussion, for a beginner Clivia grower ( referring to myself) IMHO it is the absolute right way to go, and to do.
The breeder/owner should always be mentioned, and no info regarding the plant should be withheld, even when selling your own creation.  Keeping record of plants in your collection, is crucially important, when breeding your " in future" special plant.

As mentioned I,m a newbie,  there is still much to learn, this is just my honest opinion.     
I've been following threads on the forum, many questions been answered, by reading, thank you to all for the valuable input on the forum.
 :clap: :rule: :thanks: :good:
"Be not afraid of going slowly;  be only afraid of standing still."


Brinette

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