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Author Topic: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?  (Read 5597 times)

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Offline Jane (jashh)

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Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« on: September 08, 2010, 09:55:36 »
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okay, now that I have a keeled plant, what do I do with it?

Is it a dominant or recessive trait?

Any advice would be much appreciated.
 :thanks:

Thanks
Jane



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Offline Craigie

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 22:39:37 »
Hi Jane

My limited experience with keeled clivia is that this is a recessive trait. 

Cheers

John

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Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 04:29:19 »
I'm sure it is recessive and an unstable phenomenon in some plants.
In one of the yearbooks it is said that keeled petals are the road to multipetals.
I'd self it  (presuming you like multipetals).

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Online Lionel Bester

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2010, 09:07:23 »
Interesting,
               Recessive....Dominant... I think I am getting it.

So if you keep line breeding with the keeled petal individual flowers,the keeling will become more and more dominant ?

Regards.
           Lionel.

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Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2010, 10:11:21 »
Lionel
That's one way of putting it ...
if there's no dominant partner in a marriage, well then the recessive dominates!
In other words, the more of the dominant characteristics are eliminated the more the recessive traits are allowed expression.
Regards
Roger

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Offline Mischa Portelli

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 10:47:24 »
My MP keels a lot. I'd self it too which means that if it's a recessive trait it will be in the next generation.

Online Lionel Bester

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 12:59:22 »
Roger,
        I was wondering  how come keeling can be  expressed if it is recessive.
 Now i see Halold Koopowitz defines "Recessive characters" as  " Genes that are not expressed unless the plant posseses two identical copies of that gene are called recessive. The genes that block anthocyanin synthesis have this characteristic "

Regards,
           Lionel.

Offline Willie du Plessis

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 14:30:40 »

I can pollinate a very good multipetal (many petals) with pollen from a keeled petal Hattori picotee -- and possibly get a few keeled petals on a multipetal, but with less petals.  Is it worth it after all ?   
Willie du Plessis
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Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 20:47:05 »
Lionel
there's no issue -
I thought you put it pretty neatly.
I think what breeders are doing the whole time is eliminating dominant traits to allow recessive traits to be expressed in combination
How many more recessive traits can you get than a broad leafed multipetal Universal yellow golden Light of Budha?
Does someone have one?
Regards
Roger

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2010, 21:02:04 »
Willie
Is what worth it?
The cross?
It has to be - it sounds most unusual and although there are no guarantees as to results it is these experiments that throw up plants never seen before, even if rarely the desired result.
so
Yes!
Regards
Roger

Offline Cathy Geraci

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 21:38:04 »
Lionel:

Think of this as it happens in human eye color.  I have brown eyes, both of my siblings blue eyes, my father brown eyes and my mother green eyes.  Blue is recessive we know as well as green.  Therefore my father must be heterozygous for brown/blue eyes.  If he only possessed the gene for brown eyes (homozygous), all children would have been brown eyed.  My father could contribute a gene for either blue/green or brown eyes.  My mother could only contribute the gene for the blue/green eyes.
"You must be the change you wish to see in the World" ~ Gandhi

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Offline Craigie

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 23:45:35 »
Selfing or crossing two keeled petal flowering clivia may result in only a percentage of siblings expressing the trait. But what is the aim of breeding with these forms of clivia?  More keeled petal flowering clivia? Has anyone had any different experiences? From a collecting perspective, I think there would be many who would love to have a keeled multitepal clivia.  Very unusual indeed. Whilst it is early days in understanding how to breed with these clivia, it is doubted that they would promote or lead to other variations like petaloid development, where the stamens mutate to form petaloids.  But is it possible that with further breeding petaloids may also develop from the keeled petal tissue?   

A keeled multitepal clivia may offer a lot of potential? Willie have you done any breeding with your keeled multitepal?  F1's and F2's?

Sorry for all the questions?  I do not have the answers!

regards

John

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Offline Craigie

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 23:02:40 »
Hi Jane

Here is an article you might find interesting - http://www.longwoodgardens.org/DoubleFloweredYellowClivia.html

Cheers

John

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Offline Jane (jashh)

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 23:45:01 »
Hi Jane

Here is an article you might find interesting - http://www.longwoodgardens.org/DoubleFloweredYellowClivia.html

Cheers

John

thanks John, that's interesting reading.

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Offline Mark JM2000

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Re: Keeled petals - breeding strategies?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2011, 23:20:08 »
Hi Jane.

Lovely Keeled plant that you have. Definately worth selfing or putting keeled pollen on the plant. I would love some polen if you have any to spare.

Anton, I have had similar experiences to you with my keeled plants. I have a number of them that flower yearly for me. They have flowered 100% keeled 3 years out of 5. 100% Keeled one year, 20 to 30 % keeling the following. The years with a low % of keeling were after very heavy seed set one year, and heavy the other year.

Best Regards
Mark

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