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Re: what is group3
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2010, 19:38:34 »
I love this stuff!!
Can a F2 be the product of selfing the F1, sibling crosses or backcross?
I always thought it had to be selfed, but now that I think about it I might have just made that up in my mind.

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Re: what is group3
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2010, 20:04:30 »
As I have it the F# is merely the counting of generations down the line from when a breeding programme was initiated.
Only one of the plants needs to carry the genes in that programme. Crosses can be back, sibling, selfing, out-crossing - whatever - as long as the record is kept of what's going on.

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Re: what is group3
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2010, 20:06:37 »
Thanks for the explanation Lionel.
Rodney is a real gentleman when you visit him.
His other speciality is Orchids, also on a large scale, over a very long period, with big variety.
Unique Clivia's,
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Re: what is group3
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2010, 01:34:59 »
Lionel, Are you referring to Oribi Gorge Yellows?  : "In a nutshell ,a group 3 yellow,when selfed or bred with another group 3.(these are all plants found in the wild near where we live ,about 15 km as the crow flies)will have red berries when the berries are ripe.
These seedlings will be pigmented,but will flower yellow."

To all:
There are also yellows in China that produce pigmented base seedlings that bloom yellow.  I am not sure whether or not the berries of any Chinese plants are red like Oribi Gorge yellow though.  Maybe Li Qiang, Wu Jin, or Yang or any other Chinese enthusiast can fill us in whether or not any Chinese yellows produce red berries.  I believe there are some that do.

I also have to wonder if there are any distinctively different yellow clones with any unusual characteristics in Japan.

It is obvious that any clivia that is producing yellow flowering plants from pigmented based seedlings is NOT Group 1 or 2 because all group 1 or 2 yellows arise from unpigmented based seedlings.  So it is already established there ARE other genetic classifications that yield yellow blooming Clivia.  But which plants are being grouped into this Group 3 category? 

It is possible chinese yellow blooming plants that arise from pigmented based seedlings and Oribi Gorge yellows arise from plants from genetically distinct makeup so would there also be a Group 4 upon laboratory analysis to determine if they are genetically distinct?  And for that matter we could have Group 5,6,7, etc.. etc..

Lucky for us we have Clivia enthusiasts who are retired biochemists, horticulturists, professors, an Archaeologist :0) (if you don't know who that is you must be an ostrich with it's head in the sand)etc. etc..... very science oriented professionals who deal with these types of questions on a professional basis...... so eventually we will be able to categorize and determine the breeding potential for ALL of the known yellow flowering plants.
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Re: what is group3
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2010, 06:11:41 »
Ted ,
      According to Sean Chubb they are yellows found at a location outside Pietermaritzburg.
Oribi Gorge must be about 200 km. south of this location.

no 1 Greendale Yellow.
no2 Peacevale Yellow.
no3 Celtiskloof  Yellow.

If I carry on, Sean will have nothing to say and I would so much like him to join in on the forum.

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Re: what is group3
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2010, 10:18:00 »
Hi Lionel and All
i like this kind Warm discussion .
yes in our country,there has yellow flower with red pigment,and red berries too.this two picture(i downnload from one chinese webpage) and plant belong to MR.Guan XueGuang who from ANSHAN.i just have a phone talk with him.he told me his yellow all red pigment and red berries.he had 3th generation of his yellow.80% generation will give yellow flower.leaf very broad.widest maybe 130-140mm.longest within 350mm.
but ,maybe we can call it is group3?

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Re: what is group3
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2010, 12:39:12 »
Thanks Li John,
                     Key here is that it produces 80% and not 100% yellow flowers.
By the way ,I do not see this as being an inferior trait.

And that plant is outstanding!!!

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Re: what is group3
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2010, 13:19:35 »
It could be a problem if you had to flower them all out to see which 80% were yellow.........Humus
Hugh Williams
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Re: what is group3
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2010, 15:44:32 »
Tell Sean I can't wait for him to get over here and chime in on this discussion!!! ;) also please tell him the descendants of his Chubb Peach seedlings here say hello!
                        And when can I expect my bucket full of seeds from these plants LOL
                                                             I tried for awhile to get Oribi Gorge yellow seeds but all I could find was outcrosses and Oribi Gorge orange >:(
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Re: what is group3
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2010, 10:09:03 »
Hi All
Lionel bester has asked me to comment on the questions asked concerning Group 3 Yellow.
As you all probably know there are Group 1 and Group 2 Yellows which produce unpigmented and subsequently flower yellow when crossed with other plants within their own group.
There are yellows which have come to my attention that do not produce yellow flowering seedlings when crossed with either Group 1 or Group 2 these are mostly Habitat collected plants. Some examples of these plants are listed in the a Clivia Society Yearbook. Alpha Thurston a habitat collected plant has been found not to be compatableie does not produce yellow seedlings with any other Yellow except her own seedlings so we have classified her in a group known as Alpha Group.
There are 4 plants collected in the greater Pietermaritzburg area in the early 1960`s namely; Potterill Blush Yellow, Greendale yellow, Peacevale yellow and Celtiskloof yellow. All of these plants are compatable with one another and produce yellow[or slightly blushed] flowering seedlings when crossed together. These plants have for sake of a better name been called Group 3 yellows in my breeding program . They all flower yellow with a very slight pink blush or tiny speckeling on the reverse of the flower, they produce seed pods which ripen red and all seedlings are pigmented but still flower yellow.
Another habitat plant which seemd to be in her own group is Mvuma Yellow . fortunatly she is semi fertile when selfed and so we are growing on unpigmented seedlings from the selfing. Hopefully these will then be crossed back to the original clone to produce more yellows with the same genetic makeup as Mvuma Yellow.

Many of these Clones can be viewed on my website www.cliviasa.co.za under Habitat heritage plants.

I hope this is of some help .
Best Regards
Sean Chubb
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terric@iafrica.com

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Re: what is group3
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2010, 10:49:01 »
Hello Sean,
Thank you very much for that detailed information. You are doing a great job with the habitat heritage collection. Hope we can read here more from you later   :good:

 :thanks: also to Lionel with his kind help. Joerg



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Re: what is group3
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2010, 13:17:51 »
Lionel and Sean

tks much for your help.The answer had the source finally.
maybe we should call all pigment yellow Group3:) from now.But its hereditary also need more illustrations

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Re: what is group3
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2013, 06:27:17 »
Just read this one through. Awesome discussion, thanks to all involved!

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Re: what is group3
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2017, 08:11:51 »
I bumped this post because Sean Chubb gives a excellent explanation regarding Group 3 yellow's I find Oribi to be one of the best yellow's around and one you do not forget
There are some excellent post in this thread
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